JOHN PAUL II
from issue no. 10 - 2003
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25 YEARS OF PONTIFICATE. A meeting with the Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy
«He is giving all of himself down to the last drop of blood»
An interview with Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos: “This is a rich phase, a very rich phase of the pontificate. Because this Pope, in this moment, is the witness of a man without personal interests, who does nothing to have power”
by Gianni Cardinale
To celebrate the 25 years of John Paul II’s pontificate all the cardinals and all the presidents of Episcopal Conferences in the world have been summoned to Rome. The celebrations begin on Wednesday 15 and the key moment planned is to come on 16 October, the anniversary of the election of Karol Wojtyla to Peter’s throne, remembered in a high mass. On Sunday 19 Mother Teresa of Calcutta is to be proclaimed blessed. The celebrations have a follow-on with the extraordinary Consistory of 21 October for the creation of thirty new cardinals.
Seventy-five year old Colombian Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, a close collaborator of the Pope in the Roman Curia will take part in the celebrations. The cardinal has, in fact, been Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy since 1996, and from 2000 also heads the Pontifical Commission «Ecclesia Dei», the Vatican body that has the task of bringing back into «full ecclesial communion» the churchmen and laity «linked to the Fraternity founded by Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre». Before joining the Roman Curia, Castrillón Hoyos was Bishop of Pereira in Colombia, (1971-1192) and Archbishop of Bucaramanga (1992-1996). During his Colombian episcopacy the cardinal also performed his mission in the Latin American Bishops’ Conference (CELAM), acting as Secretary General from 1983 and 1987 and then President from 1987 to 1991. He has been cardinal since 1998.
Your Eminence, when did you get to know Karol Wojtyla personally?
DARÍO CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: When I was already Bishop of Pereira I met Cardinal Karol Wojtyla at the home of his friend Monsignor Andrzej Deskur [cardinal since 1985, ed.], who worked here in Rome in the Curia. I believe it was the year in which the then Archbishop of Krakow preached the spiritual exercises to the Roman Curia. It was just a chance meeting, not gone in to. At the time I read a book in which the Church in Poland was described and it gave a fine sketch of Wojtyla, described as a bishop capable of challenging the regime and of great pastoral dynamism. I remained impressed by the figure, but I certainly didn’t imagine he’d become pope…
In effect his election came as a surprise. The first non-Italian pope for almost half a millennium. How did you learn of the unexpected election?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: I heard in a somewhat odd way… I was in Colombia, I was at a funeral, when another bishop came up and said in a whisper «Dario, the pope’s been elected, he’s an African…» «God be praised», I answered… After the function, obviously, I was informed in better manner.
When did you meet John Paul II for the first time?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: I was working at the CELAM and so I had occasion to meet him face to face for the preparation of the General Assembly of the Latin American Episcopate that was celebrated in Puebla, in Mexico in 1979, a few months after his election. He immediately gave me the impression of a man of faith, with an open mind and an extraordinary view of the world. He immediately decided to participate in person at the Puebla gathering, which by no accident was a turning-point for the Latin American Church.
In what sense?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: The Latin American Church was very dynamic at the time, and our continent was already the continent of hope. But it was also a difficult moment. Liberation Theology was going through its most virulent moment. And the Pope was in that phase a light, but also a skilful pilot. There were discordant voices, but the totality of the bishops found a sure guide in him at a delicate moment of history. Some have said that there was the possibility of a schism in that moment, but it’s not true. Even the more, let’s say, ideologized bishops who believed in good faith in the benefits of the Marxist project, had love for the Church and the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, and they followed his authoritative indications. The role of John Paul II was extremely important for the unity of the Latin American Church.
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: The Latin American Church owes much to the evangelizing of the first missionaries coming from Europe, especially from the Iberian Peninsula. Also thanks to their work Latin America today is a sub-continent with a substantial unity of faith, with a shared cultural tradition, of a western kind, without any shadow of a doubt. Today the Latin American Church is grown up, and embraces more than half of the Catholics in the world. Without counting then the ever greater presence of Hispanics in some of the liveliest dioceses in North America, such as Los Angeles. The Latin American Church then is a present reality, not a hope for the future. After a period of crisis, there is now also an increase in priestly vocations, so much so that because of demographic shrinkage in the population the priest-faithful ratio is better than it was in the ’sixties.
Let’s come back to the 25th jubilee of John Paul II. Which are the acts and events in this pontificate that have particularly struck you so far?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: It’s not a matter of single acts but of the style of a whole pontificate. Public opinion tends to see the Church as a visible social institution that has a fine purpose, an interesting doctrine, an ethic worthy of admiration even if not shared. If one looks at the Pope from that angle, one will never understand Karol Wojtyla or John Paul II. The liberals, the communists, the mason, the nationalist or universalist politicians, can find words or gestures in this pontificate that they like or don’t like. But only from a perspective of faith can this pontificate be truly understood. The Pope is above all a man of God, a contemplative possessed by God. And one can see that also in the way in which he is facing his illness. What world leader, if suffering what the Pope suffers, would continue working as John Paul II is doing? His work is to present the message of Jesus, of whom he is – and he knows it – the Vicar on earth. And he does it with an absolute simplicity, in the manner of Jesus, who also spoke through his actions. So, for example, he kissed the Koran as gesture of respect for a people that has a belief. At the same time, however, through the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, he emphasised in Dominus Iesus the salvific uniqueness of Jesus Christ.
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: No, it’s not a delicate phase but a rich phase, a very rich phase of the pontificate. Because this Pope in this moment is the witness of a man without personal affairs, who does nothing to have power. Of a man who is giving all of himself down to the last drop of blood. He is the Vicar of Christ, therefore why should the world marvel that he be crucified like Jesus? The cross was the richest moment of Jesus: it was in that moment that he has offered us his Mother, that he offered us the thought of forgiveness, the thought of feeling the abandonment of God and of abandoning oneself trustfully to the Father’s will… In this phase the Pope is working particularly for Christian unity, without pretensions to power, but so that Jesus may be the power of unity of the Church.
From what you say one gathers you don’t believe that the Pope will ever be able to retire…
HOYOS CASTRILLÓN: I don’t consider it a bad thought but an absurdity. The vicar is with the Lord up to when the Lord calls him to himself. It’s a mistake to believe that the Petrine charisma to lead His Church is given to officials other than the pope. It’s the pope who has the Petrine charisma. And then, I repeat, the word of John Paul II for the union of Church and for the peace in the world is today very much stronger, very much more pregnant than it was 25 years ago.
Your Eminence, you spoke earlier with particular participation of the moment of the Passion of Jesus. Were your words influenced by the film Passion by Mel Gibson that you saw in preview? It’s a film that has already been much debated, and accused by some of being anti-semitic…
HOYOS CASTRILLÓN: I don’t like arguments. However the film I saw seemed to me well done, accurate in reconstruction, faithful to the Gospel story. I don’t believe that the representation of a true story can be read as a generalized accusation against a people. In the film the responsibility for the condemnation of Jesus is correctly attributed to a finite group of people at a definite moment of time. It’s clear that the sins of the fathers cannot fall on the sons or on grandchildren or great-grandchildren. And it’s also true that, for example, among my ancestors there were conquistadors who killed Indios when they arrived in Latin America. I don’t feel responsible for their sins, but I don’t become angry should anyone remind me of it.
Did you have a chance to meet the Australian actor and director, who is so particularly devoted to the mass of Saint Pius V as to be sometimes accused of being a “Lefebvrian”?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: Yes, I have met him in person and he gave me the impression of a believer, of one who believes that Jesus is the son of God. For me it creates no problem that a person, a believer has a special love for a millennial tradition, estimable, sacred to the Church.
Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos
Your Eminence, when did you get to know Karol Wojtyla personally?
DARÍO CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: When I was already Bishop of Pereira I met Cardinal Karol Wojtyla at the home of his friend Monsignor Andrzej Deskur [cardinal since 1985, ed.], who worked here in Rome in the Curia. I believe it was the year in which the then Archbishop of Krakow preached the spiritual exercises to the Roman Curia. It was just a chance meeting, not gone in to. At the time I read a book in which the Church in Poland was described and it gave a fine sketch of Wojtyla, described as a bishop capable of challenging the regime and of great pastoral dynamism. I remained impressed by the figure, but I certainly didn’t imagine he’d become pope…
In effect his election came as a surprise. The first non-Italian pope for almost half a millennium. How did you learn of the unexpected election?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: I heard in a somewhat odd way… I was in Colombia, I was at a funeral, when another bishop came up and said in a whisper «Dario, the pope’s been elected, he’s an African…» «God be praised», I answered… After the function, obviously, I was informed in better manner.
When did you meet John Paul II for the first time?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: I was working at the CELAM and so I had occasion to meet him face to face for the preparation of the General Assembly of the Latin American Episcopate that was celebrated in Puebla, in Mexico in 1979, a few months after his election. He immediately gave me the impression of a man of faith, with an open mind and an extraordinary view of the world. He immediately decided to participate in person at the Puebla gathering, which by no accident was a turning-point for the Latin American Church.
In what sense?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: The Latin American Church was very dynamic at the time, and our continent was already the continent of hope. But it was also a difficult moment. Liberation Theology was going through its most virulent moment. And the Pope was in that phase a light, but also a skilful pilot. There were discordant voices, but the totality of the bishops found a sure guide in him at a delicate moment of history. Some have said that there was the possibility of a schism in that moment, but it’s not true. Even the more, let’s say, ideologized bishops who believed in good faith in the benefits of the Marxist project, had love for the Church and the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, and they followed his authoritative indications. The role of John Paul II was extremely important for the unity of the Latin American Church.
The Latin American Church owes much to the evangelizing of the first missionaries coming from Europe, especially from the Iberian Peninsula. Also thanks to their work Latin America today is a sub-continent with a substantial unity of faith, with a shared cultural tradition, of a western kind, without any shadow of a doubt…
Permit me a parenthesis on the Latin American Church. How do you see its future?CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: The Latin American Church owes much to the evangelizing of the first missionaries coming from Europe, especially from the Iberian Peninsula. Also thanks to their work Latin America today is a sub-continent with a substantial unity of faith, with a shared cultural tradition, of a western kind, without any shadow of a doubt. Today the Latin American Church is grown up, and embraces more than half of the Catholics in the world. Without counting then the ever greater presence of Hispanics in some of the liveliest dioceses in North America, such as Los Angeles. The Latin American Church then is a present reality, not a hope for the future. After a period of crisis, there is now also an increase in priestly vocations, so much so that because of demographic shrinkage in the population the priest-faithful ratio is better than it was in the ’sixties.
Let’s come back to the 25th jubilee of John Paul II. Which are the acts and events in this pontificate that have particularly struck you so far?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: It’s not a matter of single acts but of the style of a whole pontificate. Public opinion tends to see the Church as a visible social institution that has a fine purpose, an interesting doctrine, an ethic worthy of admiration even if not shared. If one looks at the Pope from that angle, one will never understand Karol Wojtyla or John Paul II. The liberals, the communists, the mason, the nationalist or universalist politicians, can find words or gestures in this pontificate that they like or don’t like. But only from a perspective of faith can this pontificate be truly understood. The Pope is above all a man of God, a contemplative possessed by God. And one can see that also in the way in which he is facing his illness. What world leader, if suffering what the Pope suffers, would continue working as John Paul II is doing? His work is to present the message of Jesus, of whom he is – and he knows it – the Vicar on earth. And he does it with an absolute simplicity, in the manner of Jesus, who also spoke through his actions. So, for example, he kissed the Koran as gesture of respect for a people that has a belief. At the same time, however, through the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, he emphasised in Dominus Iesus the salvific uniqueness of Jesus Christ.
Today the Latin American Church is grown up, and embraces more than half of the Catholics in the world. Without counting then the ever greater presence of Hispanics in some of the liveliest dioceses in North America, such as Los Angeles. The Latin American Church then is a present reality, not a hope for the future
What do you feel about this particularly delicate phase of the pontificate?CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: No, it’s not a delicate phase but a rich phase, a very rich phase of the pontificate. Because this Pope in this moment is the witness of a man without personal affairs, who does nothing to have power. Of a man who is giving all of himself down to the last drop of blood. He is the Vicar of Christ, therefore why should the world marvel that he be crucified like Jesus? The cross was the richest moment of Jesus: it was in that moment that he has offered us his Mother, that he offered us the thought of forgiveness, the thought of feeling the abandonment of God and of abandoning oneself trustfully to the Father’s will… In this phase the Pope is working particularly for Christian unity, without pretensions to power, but so that Jesus may be the power of unity of the Church.
John Paul II before the image of the Blessed Virgin, on the parvis of the sanctuary of the Lady of the Rosary of Pompei, 7 October 2003
HOYOS CASTRILLÓN: I don’t consider it a bad thought but an absurdity. The vicar is with the Lord up to when the Lord calls him to himself. It’s a mistake to believe that the Petrine charisma to lead His Church is given to officials other than the pope. It’s the pope who has the Petrine charisma. And then, I repeat, the word of John Paul II for the union of Church and for the peace in the world is today very much stronger, very much more pregnant than it was 25 years ago.
Your Eminence, you spoke earlier with particular participation of the moment of the Passion of Jesus. Were your words influenced by the film Passion by Mel Gibson that you saw in preview? It’s a film that has already been much debated, and accused by some of being anti-semitic…
HOYOS CASTRILLÓN: I don’t like arguments. However the film I saw seemed to me well done, accurate in reconstruction, faithful to the Gospel story. I don’t believe that the representation of a true story can be read as a generalized accusation against a people. In the film the responsibility for the condemnation of Jesus is correctly attributed to a finite group of people at a definite moment of time. It’s clear that the sins of the fathers cannot fall on the sons or on grandchildren or great-grandchildren. And it’s also true that, for example, among my ancestors there were conquistadors who killed Indios when they arrived in Latin America. I don’t feel responsible for their sins, but I don’t become angry should anyone remind me of it.
Did you have a chance to meet the Australian actor and director, who is so particularly devoted to the mass of Saint Pius V as to be sometimes accused of being a “Lefebvrian”?
CASTRILLÓN HOYOS: Yes, I have met him in person and he gave me the impression of a believer, of one who believes that Jesus is the son of God. For me it creates no problem that a person, a believer has a special love for a millennial tradition, estimable, sacred to the Church.
